In the Company of Travellers: Season 2, Episode 9: Ayu Suwandi

Hannes Wiesmann: Welcome dear listeners to In the Company of Travelers, a podcast of the Wycliffe Global Alliance. I am Hannes Wiesmann and with me again is Jo Johnson. Hi, Jo.

Jo Johnson: Thanks, Hannes. Good to be with you. Today we conclude Season 2 of this podcast. We’ve been looking at the topic of discernment, both personal and organizational, and our guests from around the world have taken many different approaches based on their own experiences and contexts. I’ve been really challenged to see discernment as a way we live, not just something we sometimes do.

Hannes Wiesmann: To me, it is simply a great privilege to journey together with people from around the world. We all have our biases as we approach spiritual life, and the context in which we live is a huge part of it. So, it broadens and deepens my understanding of life with God when I walk with people with a different perspective. Jo, who is our guest this time?

Jo Johnson: Well, for this final episode of Season 2, we’re talking to Ayu Suwandi. Ayu directs the Bible Translation Center of the Evangelical Christian Church in Minahasa, Indonesia. And she relates her own personal stories of trials and testing as having been extremely helpful in organizational leadership.

Hannes Wiesmann: And we’re also trying something kind of fun for this episode. Advancements in AI technology now enable real-time conversations among people speaking different languages. Ayu speaks English, but her preferred language is Bahasa Indonesia. So you will hear Jo and me speaking English and Ayu responding in Indonesian. But then we have used an AI-generated voice to translate her words to English. It’s all quite remarkable and allows us to talk with people whose preferred language isn’t English. Here then is our AI-enhanced conversation with Ayu.

Hannes Wiesmann: Welcome, Ayu. We are very grateful for this opportunity to talk with you and learn from you as we continue in our second season of our podcast. Now this is a little experiment. We are doing a first time that we are interviewing someone who will speak a language, Indonesian in this case, which Jo and I don’t speak. So, we are using technology in the hope that we will have a normal conversation enabled through technology. So, Ayu, maybe you could start us off with telling us just a little bit about yourself.

Ayu Suwandi: Thank you, Hannes and Jo, to welcoming me to be a part of this conversation. My name is Ayu, Ayu Suwandi. I serve as a director at a Bible Translation Center of the Evangelical Christian Church in Minahasa, Indonesia. I have been serving for the past 24 years, and I can see just how good God is and how wonderfully he is at work within the Bible translation movement in Indonesia. When I reflect on the fact that I have been involved in the Bible translation movement in Indonesia for approximately 24 years, there is a reality I had to accept. In my 11th and 12th years of service, I rejoiced alongside the team at PPA GMIM when we had the opportunity to celebrate the completion of three New Testaments in three languages, a project that had taken around 15 years to complete. But what I wish to say here is that one year later, I had to face the reality that I had to embark on a spiritual journey not only as Ayu, but together with my family and the team at PPA GMIM. For around 9 months, God led me on a spiritual journey, or if you will, a spiritual class, during which I had to focus on finding healing from the illness I was facing, cancer. And for those nine months, I focused on going through every stage of the process so that I could be healed. That period coincided with a major transition for PPA GMIM. We were rejoicing at having completed several New Testaments in various languages. But God had given us a greater vision: how GMIM as a local church in Indonesia could become more deeply involved in the Bible translation movement in Indonesia.

Hannes Wiesmann: Well, thank you very much, Ayu, for sharing about this very challenging time in your life. I wonder what helped you get through this time. You said it was a spiritual journey. So, what helped you through this spiritual journey?

Ayu Suwandi: Perhaps if people were to ask, if you could turn back time, would you ask God not to make you go through that spiritual journey via the illness that people so dread? I would say yes. But I can say that I am so grateful for that journey, one not everyone can undertake. Because I have seen that God works in ways beyond what I could ever think or imagine. In fact, God has molded me into a person who is better prepared to be used by him in the Bible translation movement in Indonesia. At that time, I was already a leader. Even while undergoing treatment, I continued to ask God questions: Why at such a crucial time for the PPA did God take me away and allow the team within the PPA to take on the work that I should have been doing? Yet, I discovered many things that God taught me. One of these was that I was reminded once again that this is God’s work, and if God can use me, God can use anyone. And if God gives me an opportunity, God can also give the same opportunity to others. Since then, I have learned many things that have helped me to change. I was a perfectionist leader who always felt I had to be present and ensure everything ran according to my expectations. And throughout that spiritual journey, God has helped me as I have seen in many ways how he strengthens me and reminds me of his goodness. I have also come to realize that there are in fact many people whom God can use in the mission of Bible translation. When I was ill, our staff numbered just six people; now there are 56 of us.

Jo Johnson: So you said you are a perfectionist leader. Being a perfectionist leader is not easily shed. It sticks with us. Where are you in this journey?

Ayu Suwandi: There are certainly positive aspects to a leader being a perfectionist. But the downside is that I put too much pressure on myself. Without realizing it, I was actually limiting God’s power to work through me as well as through the people serving alongside me at PPA Gemim. And I could see this because there were two major events, the launch of the New Testament in two languages. I wasn’t involved in the preparations; my team handled it because at that time I had no other choice. I had to undergo chemotherapy and my body was quite weak. But what I’m truly grateful for is that during the celebration to give thanks for the launch, God gave me the opportunity to be present and take part in the celebration. And I was truly amazed and overjoyed as if God had unfolded a film that was so vivid. I could see an extraordinary celebration, and I sat there as part of it. It had been organized by the team in collaboration with local people and the local church, and I am grateful that at a time when I had no other choice but to focus on my recovery, God enabled me to witness his extraordinary work through the ministry I am involved in.

Hannes Wiesmann: It sounds like at the same time a humbling experience, but also a liberating experience.

Ayu Suwandi: That’s absolutely right. God taught me to be humble, although to be honest, at the time I considered myself a humble leader. But that was my way of thinking, because God knows best what is in my heart. Perhaps to him that wasn’t true humility as a leader, and he used my spiritual journey to bring about healing so that I could see: Hey, even without working, even without trying, I can do this. And if you’re part of my work, it’s because I long for you to rejoice in it, too. And for me, that’s a blessing. That’s grace. It reminds me that it was God’s great love that led me 12 years ago to realize for the first time that, oh, the Bible has been translated. It turns out that God’s word is so important. Even 12 years later, for the very first time, I was deeply moved to be able to hold the New Testament in the language of my heart. And it turned out that it was God’s word that I clung to during those difficult times as I sought healing. And I rejoiced that I could finally have God’s word in a language I understood, the Manado language. And I feel that God is very close for me; God always has a way of finding me.

Jo Johnson: Any passage that you still remember was particularly important during that time for you?

Ayu Suwandi: Firstly, it’s because I’m the sort of person who has to think everything through carefully, and there were times when I didn’t want to move forward. At that time I had just had surgery to remove my cancer, but after that I had to undergo chemotherapy and radiotherapy. And I don’t know why, but usually the pathology results only take about a week or two at most, but in my case it took nearly a month. And because I decided to have the operation in Jakarta, I left my children and husband behind in Manado. So for nearly a month I was living on my own in Jakarta, and I asked “ “Madame, you must return within a week.” After a week I contacted the clinic to ask if the pathology results were ready. They said they weren’t, and I felt that God wanted me to leave once the results were in. I didn’t want to leave my children who were still very young at the time. Every day they asked, “Mom, when are you coming home?” That weighed heavily on my heart. But then one morning as I was getting up to pray privately, God spoke to me through the story in Genesis 22 when Isaac was to be sacrificed by Abraham. Even in the early verses, I saw that Abraham was a man of obedience. He did not argue with God; he simply obeyed. The very next day, he prepared everything and took his son, ready to be sacrificed. That message pierced my heart as if God was saying, “Just obey. Don’t ask for proof. Just be obedient.” And, “All right, Lord, I’ll be obedient.” I bought a ticket, traveled to Jakarta, and went straight to the clinic. I arrived at the clinic, and before long my pathology results arrived there too. And that is one of the stories I like to share from those nine months. There were many things God spoke to me about quite personally to help me realize: Okay, you’re standing on reality, but there’s one step further you must take, and that is toward the truth. Yes, perhaps up until now, I’ve mostly been standing on the basis of, okay, this is the reality; these are the facts. But what God wants is for me not to merely stand on a fact. I must stand on the truth, namely the truth found in Jesus Christ. And all of this is in the Bible.

Jo Johnson: That’s amazing to me that God allowed you to kind of learn through that discerning of what he was saying to you to be completely dependent on him and to put his will ahead of everything. Is that something you now find easier to do, or is it still a battle to discern his will and be obedient?

Ayu Suwandi: What I learned from that journey and what helps me today is obedience. That is all: obedience. And since then, over the last 5 years, PPA has been growing; we have developed remarkably. Why? Because it turns out that God has placed a vision within our church leader GMIM that is always grand, ever greater and greater. And PPA GMIM is a unit within the church responsible for ensuring that GMIM’s vision to support and play an active role in the Bible translation movement in Indonesia is realized, because this is the responsibility God has entrusted to us. That is why GMIM as a local church has a Bible translation department. So I see that as a leader one has a very important role, namely obedience. Because in the current situation with so many things changing, if we are not obedient to God and do not learn to see what we are not yet able to perceive as human beings, there will be many things that cannot come to pass. Indeed, now that I see that Bible translation is a tool used by the Lord together with the church to take on a greater role proclaiming the gospel to the whole world and strengthening the faith of church members so that they may then become agents ready to go and proclaim the gospel, translating the word of God to tribes who to this day still do not have the word of God, do not yet understand which path is the right one and who Christ is for them.

Hannes Wiesmann: So you have undergone this very challenging time of your sickness and learned an important lesson about obedience. Now I wonder, you as a leader, not every one of the people who you lead has gone through the same school of obedience, so to speak. How do you help your team to come along with you as you work together?

Ayu Suwandi: Yeah, because the PPA GMIM team is quite a large one. So there were times when I noticed some members seemed disobedient or uncooperative. But I was then reminded once again: Ayu, God is so patient with your disobedience. And that’s how I try to be more patient with the team to give them the chance to be obedient, because for me obedience for everyone really comes down to the relationship they have with God. So if someone is only obedient to me because I’m the leader, that’s only temporary obedience. But if they’re obedient to God, they’ll certainly be obedient to their leader. Another aspect is that I’ve also learned to make time to build a relationship with them, because teaching obedience requires a relationship and takes time. We must be friends to them. Even though as a leader that is not easy, but I am always learning to try to understand that being a leader does not mean we cannot have a relationship with the team. The most important thing I do is to always share this with my leadership team, because it is only through my leadership team that I can provide a channel for them to also share the same values—values that are so important for every believer to possess, not just because they are part of this ministry.

Jo Johnson: How do you think your team views this dynamic?

Ayu Suwandi: I’m grateful that when I joined PPA GMIM, it took me years to discover my vision and calling, to understand why translation is important. And only then did I begin to feel a sense of ownership and responsibility for the progress of this Bible translation. But what I’m most grateful for is that those who joined PPA as part of the team were for the most part already aware of PPA’s plans. They had been formed whilst they were still at university through various campus ministries. Some of them even already had a calling. So when they joined PPA, it was as if their calling was being reaffirmed through this shared ministry. That’s what I feel particularly grateful for. They understand better; they don’t need years as I did to grasp why the Bible needs to be translated. And I’m also grateful that by the time they joined PPA, GMIM already had training in place, both soft skills such as calling, commitment, and teamwork, and hard skills. We also started with a monthly sabbatical, and we hold morning devotions and Bible study groups every morning. The leadership team and I are striving to build a second home for all of us. At the very least, we don’t want those who are here now to experience the same things we went through back then. That’s because the work today is far greater and requires people who are far better prepared for this ministry.

Jo Johnson: Oh, that’s amazing, Ayu. In our first season of this podcast, we talked about how organizations can foster a spiritual life. It seems in your organization you have a very rich spiritual life together with all you do.

Ayu Suwandi: Yeah. Learning from our own experience, when we first started we were still focused on how to complete the translation, how to finish a book and how many chapters we could complete. It turned out that Bible translation is not merely about completing the translation, but begins right from the start of the process. It is a spiritual journey, a personal spiritual journey together with the translation team, the community, and the church. This is very important, and for me that is what scripture engagement is all about—that it does not begin once the finished translation is available, but rather how every individual and indeed the whole community involved in the process of producing the translation is drawn closer to and comes to understand that there is a true God in Jesus Christ whom we must believe in. And so as leaders at PPA GMIM, we must ensure we provide spaces for prayer so that when they need personal prayer or there is communal prayer, we have a small room available. And every morning there are 30 minutes set aside for us to study God’s word using the Discovery Bible Study method. This helps everyone to continue to grow. Even though I know that there are aspects of each person’s character shaped by the fact that we were born to different parents and have different paths, it is not because we at PPA provide these things that they can help them. But at the very least, there are spiritual spaces that everyone can find at the PPA office when they cannot find them at home or elsewhere.

Jo Johnson: I absolutely love this. A little advertisement here: the World Day of Prayer. This year the theme is Come and be transformed. And what we’re talking about is that the transformation of engaging with God in his mission is not just for the people who receive his word for the first time, but it’s for all of us who are engaging in his mission. And it seems like you have grasped this concept with two hands and that you’re living it out. And it’s by allowing God to transform us, you are able to be obedient. You are able to understand what he’s doing and get involved in that. So you have encouraged me today. Thank you very much. So in this second season of our podcast, we talk about discernment. I’m curious how all of what you have shared with us now—your personal story and the way you live out the spiritual life together in your team—how does that inform how you personally or as a team do discernment?

Ayu Suwandi: The word discernment is indeed quite difficult in Indonesian. But if I had to sum it up in a single word, I might say that discernment is like the way we find God. There are many ways to find God. When I talk about my 9-month journey, for me it was a very profound experience of discernment. But in truth, it wasn’t me who found God; it was God who found me. And actually for me in the work of translation, there are many opportunities for everyone to find God through the process of translation. It simply depends on our motivation when we are involved in Bible translation. For me, finding God is more of a personal matter. And when I say personal, perhaps the way each person feels comfortable finding God is different. Perhaps they find God whilst reading a book, listening to a song, or whilst on holiday in the mountains or at the seaside. But one can also find God during a meeting. I can experience this when I listen with an open heart to another leader offering a suggestion or feedback that may differ from my own. I see that as a way of finding God. So that is perhaps what I am trying to understand about discernment in my context as someone born in Indonesia.

Hannes Wiesmann: Well, I find it a very helpful perspective—finding God, and also as you mentioned, God wants to find us. It’s actually both ways. I find that very encouraging, because if it depended on me only, I don’t know how far I would go, but since God is very active in searching me and in reaching out to me, I am hopeful. So as we bring this to a close, I wonder if you have something else you would like to leave with our audience about discernment?

Ayu Suwandi: Because I’m trying to relate this to the role of a leader, perhaps people think that to be a leader one must possess many skills, have a packed schedule, moving from one meeting to the next, and be constantly thinking about strategy. But I would say that when we become leaders, getting to know God more deeply is far more important, because ultimately our leadership will be meaningless if everything is not guided by God. And it often happens that as leaders we make plans, but things do not turn out that way. And if we are not obedient in listening to and seeking God through the many ways we can encounter him, we will become leaders who may be admired by many people, but rejected by God. That is my fear. I might become a leader who is held in high regard, but it turns out that everything I do is not what God wants.

Jo Johnson: That is a very good word, Ayu, for all of us. Of course, it’s totally biblical. One of my favorite verses is that we should seek God’s kingdom first, not our own glory, not our own desire to be respected and all that. So, thank you again, Ayu, for sharing so vulnerably with us, and also just for the leadership you bring to the Bible translation movement, not only in Indonesia, but actually beyond. So thank you. Thank you again.

Hannes Wiesmann: Our thanks to Ayu Suwandi for telling us her story and also for helping us with this translation experiment.

Jo Johnson: Yes. And thanks again to all our guests from this season 2 of In the Company of Travelers. Wisdom and discernment are two of the things most often mentioned by ministry leaders as prayer needs. We would love to keep this conversation going even as we pause between seasons. If you have thoughts, questions, or stories about discernment from an organizational point of view, please drop us an email at info@wycliffe.net.

Hannes Wiesmann: As always, thanks for listening and we hope these conversations have been a blessing to you and to your organization. We look forward to being back soon with a new season and topic within that overall topic of organizational Christlikeness. We hope you’ll join us then. So long for now, and continue to travel well.