The Journey Podcast

Episode 15 – Agnes Lid / April 2026 / Hosts: Phil Prior and Jim Killam

Transcript

Phil Prior (00:09.847)

Well, hello everyone and welcome to this podcast from the Wycliffe Global Alliance. It’s great to have you all with us. Today, Jim and I are going to be spending some time talking to Agnes Lid, who has been around the world of Bible translation for a number of years, but has suddenly arrived as the interim executive director of the Global Alliance. And we’re going to talk some more about that in a little while. But first, Agnes, thank you for being with us. It’s really good to see you and speak to you. There are lots of people who know you in this environment anyway, but for those few that maybe have never had the pleasure of meeting you and talking to you in person, maybe you could tell us a little bit about your background and your journey and how you got to be involved in Bible translation.

Agnes Lid (01:14.658)

Thank you. Well, thank you for inviting me to this podcast. And I’m happy to introduce myself a little more in detail. So I was born and raised and have lived in Norway most of my life. I’m a Norwegian and grew up in a Christian home, a big family, going to church and being serious about my faith from an early age. So after high school, I went to Bible school and my desire was really to walk in and live in what God had for my life, which brought me into adventures in my early twenties of living abroad. my Bible school was in the USA, I went to Switzerland, worked for a youth congress, mission-minded youth congress called Mission 83, worked for that. Later I went into YWAM and had a, was doing a few years there, and that’s where I met my husband. And so we settled and had a family and lived in one place in Norway and got involved in church planting.

We kept our hearts and minds open that if God led us in any specific direction, we would be willing to go where he called us. In 2002, there was a TV program about Wycliffe, nationally in Norway, during Easter. And I saw it and it struck me as, wow, you know, working with both the Bible and languages, two of my passions.

We immediately inquired more of Wycliffe, Norway, that we contacted. What does it take to serve with you and what kind of people can you use? At that time we were a family with four children in school and so of course like they even responded to us in Wycliffe, well that’s a big ship to turn around but if you don’t start moving you can’t turn the ship at all. So that’s where I learned that saying.

Agnes Lid (03:39.202)

So we started making some steps and exploring and it led us to a two-year stay in Canada for master’s studies and then we applied for membership with Wycliffe Norway. And then we had to try and wait to see when would there be a time for us to take an assignment anywhere because we had four children in school. So I was asked to serve on the Wycliffe Norway Board and did that from 2007 and then our attempts at going and taking up an assignment did not work out. There were health issues in the family that stopped us, so we just said, OK Lord, we have prepared, we’re here. We stayed put in our house and our jobs. I worked in upper secondary school with teaching and school management, and I served on the board.

And then after six years on the board, well, a little before that, I was asked if I could take over as Wycliffe Norway director. They needed a new director. So that was the big move we then made. We said yes, my husband and I accepted this. We resigned from our jobs, sold the house, moved to another part of the country. And I took up that role in August 2013. OK, So that started like the full-time engagement with Wycliffe. So it’s a long journey. From there, after a couple years, I was asked to serve on the Alliance Board after having participated in area meetings and consultations and made contacts. And so I’ve been on the board since 2016 until March this year. I felt that 10 years was probably good and more than seven years of that was as board chair.

So that leads us up to today. But just as I was preparing to step down and start relaxing, I was asked if I could take on the interim role as ED while the board searched for a new permanent ED. So that’s where we are today. I’m now sharing my time 50-50, at least in theory, between Wycliffe Norway and Wycliffe Global Alliance and I’m not a super woman. So I also have my limitations but so far I have confidence we will make it work.

Phil Prior (06:07.184)

It sounds like, well, from that willingness to serve God in wherever he takes you on this journey, it’s been quite a ride already. But I wonder, is there something in all of that that maybe not so many people know about you or would be surprised to know about you?

Agnes Lid (06:29.233)

Well, that’s a question that’s hard to just answer on the spot. But I may seem like I’m primarily a career person or just this high level. So I’ve been led into senior leadership. But I’m really a down to earth, family oriented person, loving the outdoors. And maybe a fun fact could be that although I’m this busy, I bake all the bread that we need in the family. Sourdough baking. So, all for good bread and good health.

Jim Killam (07:02.881)

Nice.

Jim Killam (07:09.773)

So you’ve lived and served in lots of different places and contexts. Tell us what’s unique about Norway, living in Norway, as opposed to all those other places.

Agnes Lid (07:22.977)

Well, Norway is a small country. We’re just a little over five million people in the whole country. And it’s very stretched out geographically with a very long coastline and not so wide from east to west, but from south to north. And we have a lot of wilderness or fairly untouched nature.

And so it’s part of our culture that we like spending time in the outdoors. Little children, you know, they get their first skis when they’re 2. Often we, on days off, you know, the whole idea of a Sunday walk, it’s a compound, you know, it’s one word, Sundaywalk.

People like to… A lot of people have cabins that could be simple but that gives an opportunity to spend time in the mountains or on the coast. So I would say the outdoors, this whole thing of outing that we have a word for and you can combine it, create very many compounds with it. So that’s a feature. 

Agnes Lid (08:41.983)

I think even the geography shapes culture and the people living there. It’s also, the winter is long and dark, which means that we treasure time making it cozy inside, indoors. We keep it warm and nice. We light candles. We create space for that around the fireplace. That’s part of the culture.

Jim Killam (09:09.261)

Yeah, I see surveys all the time that list Norway as the happiest nation on earth.

Agnes Lid (09:16.157)

I’m grateful for Norway and I know that we tend to score high. I think that is also due to that we have, at least until now, had a culture with a high level of trust and very little corruption. So people basically have trusted both government and police and the public institutions and trusted their neighbors.

A lot of people didn’t used to need to lock their doors …

I would say my perspective on that is that it’s the fruit of 1,000 years of Christian history, since we had the first Christian laws introduced in 1,000, so 1024, a little more than 1,000 years ago. We cannot take this for granted. We have become a very secular society.

Many people maybe think that all these values of trust and kindness and caring for the weak and public health care and all of these things come out of the last 300 years, but I don’t think that’s correct. And so I’m thinking we might also lose it as we as a nation move away from God’s standards. But we’re praying and hoping for good things still to happen and the church to wake up and grow in Norway as well.

Jim Killam (10:54.741)

It’s really interesting to hear those things about Norway, just your descriptions. I think maybe the world’s perception of Norway may be based on the Winter Olympics or something. And so we think it’s like the North Pole there, but you have summer.

Agnes Lid (11:09.857)

We do have summer.  It just depends where you are in the country and then how many days of summer you get. Like I’ve heard people in the northern Norway say, well, this year we had one day of summer. But of course, I usually say we have three months where we can… where I live in the Oslo area?  and that’s in the south or quite far to the south. We can hope for three months, June, July and August.

Agnes Lid (11:37.909)

But not all of that will be warm, but at least we have a lot of daylight. 

Phil Prior (11:56.538)

It’s exciting when it’s light at this time of the afternoon, I know that. Earlier in your, when you were talking, you said that you are now, you were looking forward to a rest after finishing your role chairing the board and you now have this role as interim director of the Global Alliance. How do you see the balancing of the role of interim executive director and the role of director of a national organization in Norway? Maybe not so much in extent of the time, but thinking about the fact that the organization you lead and represent in Norway is also a member of the Alliance. So how do you see that working in the future?

Agnes Lid (12:49.269)

Well, I’m at the beginning of this so I have to find out. But I do have like a foundational or basic trust that it’s going to work out. We’ll find a way with God’s help. I definitely would not have done this unless I felt that, you know, this still small voice saying, yes, do it, go.

I will need to juggle many things at the same time. I think I’m pretty good at that. That works for me, but I also have to prioritize. I lead a very small organization, so it’s vulnerable when, my position, it’s 20% or it’s more than 20% of who we are. And so when that’s cut in half, somebody else has to do more, but the board was very supportive immediately when I asked the board chair, ‘What do you think, is it possible?’ He just said, ‘If the Alliance needs you, that is more important and we’ll be flexible. I’m sure we can put maybe initiatives on hold or we’ll make it work.’ So without the generosity of the board and the staff … 

They’ve really been supportive and they’re eager to say, let us know if there’s things to delegate. So I’ll have to think that way. And same way then for the interim role, I cannot do and I cannot be expected to do everything that a full-time ED in a permanent position would do. But I’ll have to really think through what is most important that I cover in this time period.

And then other things I’ll just politely say, you know, no to invitations and so on. So I trust we’ll make it work. We’ll see.

Phil Prior (14:55.631)

You’re not a novice to leadership anyway. You’ve got years of leading in Wycliffe Norway, and also balancing with that role as chair of the board. Are there things that you’ve learned over that time, maybe a story or two, that you could tell us that illustrate how you see balancing those kind of roles working?

Agnes Lid (15:21.959)

Well, I learned many things. That’s true that I’ve been in many leadership roles and kind of growing into things that I never imagined or could even, you know, think that could happen. But I learned some basic things even when I worked in that high school. And I had responsibility for 20 teachers reporting to me, that, you know, you always have to put people first. People are more important than things or money. And so all the people you deal with, they are more than the role they have. They’re more than the eight hours they work. They are people with emotions, with families, with concerns and worries. And if somebody’s suffering in their family, that will be there all the time when they try to do their job. So caring for people, if we lose people, it’s our most important resource. So I try to always, although I can be quite task-oriented and I’m a go-getter, I want things done efficiently,

I really try to work on, I’ve tried for years, to think of meeting people, giving attention to people, making sure that my staff is doing well. So that’s one thing that I now feel now I am responsible for a new team, the Alliance Leadership Team, and I really want them to feel that I have attention to how they’re doing and how their needs are. And I believe that as you give your team attention and care, they will be much more productive and efficient and healthy. I’ve also learned to appreciate the board because here I work as director, but I have a board and I report to the board. In that way, the board is my boss.

Agnes Lid (17:25.675)

But having that is also a covering. They have my back. And they’re also my spiritual covering and in the, in a way, authority structure that I am in. They have appointed me and their aim is to make me succeed. And I also know what it is to be on the other side as I have filled, now I’ve stepped down, but I led the Alliance Board. I’m also board chair for another organization. And so there I know I have to provide that for whoever is the director. And that is a wise way we have organized our organizations. This is of course grounded or anchored in our bylaws. The governance has one area management or leadership has something and they dance this dance together.

But that gives both strength and protection. So, I think I take some of that understanding and my experience of being on both sides of the table, so to speak, into this role.

Jim Killam (18:37.389)

If we could back up a little bit, you were talking about your career history and you consistently said you were asked to serve in leadership roles. It sounds to me like you haven’t actively sought a lot of these roles. What does that look like for you and what’s it like to say yes to something maybe you don’t feel ready for?

Agnes Lid (19:03.457)

Well, it is correct that actually all those senior leadership roles, I’ve been asked or encouraged to apply. The honest answer is I think that people see that there is a gift of leadership that I have and, probably a combination of my natural gifting and spiritual gifts as God, you know, blesses us and calls us. So, I mean, I started by leading Sunday school as a teenager. So you lead these things that you’re asked to because there are needs around and

Yeah, so I think I’ve been quite confident for many, many years now that God’s actually called me to be a leader. And then I don’t take on anything without praying about it and asking God to confirm that in my heart and for my husband. I definitely wouldn’t have taken on this last new challenge without his support and him also being convinced that I should say yes.

Jim Killam (20:28.247)

Yeah, I think it would feel, when you haven’t been seeking these positions, but they come up and it’s like an opportunity that God raises. It would seem like it’s pretty clear that that’s from God and not from you when those happen that way, right?

Agnes Lid (20:45.953)

Yeah, well, at least that gives confidence or at least it adds to giving me the confidence I need. I don’t think there’s anything wrong about seeking a position or applying for it because you feel that this is something that sounds exciting, interesting, something you think you can do. At the same time, I think maybe in some ways for some of these roles I’ve had, leadership roles in Wycliffe, there hasn’t been women in these roles before. And so for that it’s good to know that I was actually asked, I was actually asked by men to take the role, you know, but that’s another topic.

Phil Prior (21:37.356)

Well, it’s a good topic because I was reflecting as you were, I had the privilege of being at the board meeting where you finished your role as board chair and then transitioned into this role of interim executive director. And I started asking around the room, can anybody think of any other women who are leading international mission organizations?

And there were a few suggestions of national organisations that work globally, but actually the concept, or a woman leading an international mission organisation or a global mission organisation like the Alliance, is rare. I’m not sure you’re the first, but there have not been very many. But you have been working in leadership roles for all this time. Does this affect the way that you approach the role or the way that you see your participation in global mission through this?

Agnes Lid (22:47.893)

At this level I find that I work a lot with men and I don’t really think that much about that. I enjoy working with both men and women. I really don’t think much about … sometimes I suddenly think, everyone here except me, they’re just all men. That’s fine. I don’t mind that. Maybe I think it kind of shaped me to grow up with three brothers and everyone in my family, where I grew up, assertive, especially the men, but I guess I was a fighter, so I also became very assertive, Or else I wouldn’t have had a chance at the dinner table. But anyway, so I, that’s fine, and I don’t think that much about it. But of course, I have thought through carefully whether I believe that, because I know that there are attitudes or viewpoints out there in the Christian world that women shouldn’t have these roles. And so I have to know for myself that I feel confident that God’s called me. So I have read up on that topic a lot, I understand that others have other viewpoints.

They draw, some people or churches that draw lines somehow, that this is … beyond here, only men can serve. But, of course that line is drawn in very different places, which also tells us that even though the Bible says things that must make us think about this, it’s not crystal clear exactly what a woman shouldn’t do then, or can do. And so I think that’s quite interesting. At least we have to see that observation and so at least to say that it doesn’t mean that you have a liberal views on theology or you discard the Bible or you say that the apostle Paul didn’t know what he was talking about. You don’t have to go there to defend a viewpoint saying we believe God calls and equips women to serve in the church in various roles.

Jim Killam (25:09.069)

This is a period of uncertainty for the Alliance, obviously, and some transition. Can you give Alliance organization leaders a little bit of insight on what they could expect during this interim period from you and from the Alliance itself?

Agnes Lid (25:28.095)

Yeah, at least I can give a first hint because I’m so new in the role and of course this came on on short notice and I had trips and other things planned. But we will be, I think what the Alliance organizations can expect is to hear from me and from the leadership that we want to within a few months come out with some clear messaging about our direction and encouraging the vision, the short-term vision, let’s put it that way. We all know what our vision is as an Alliance.

Our foundational statements, you know, they’re not up for discussion, but we also want to be able to talk more and cast some vision for what’s right ahead of us. What’s most important for the next few years? How can we work well together? What does collaboration gonna look like? Where are the synergies? So I hope, together with the Alliance leadership team, to be able to crystallize some more of this and communicate. I also think the Alliance should expect, as I said, to hear from me, but at the same time to be realistic about expectations for me to show up at all kinds of events. I will not be able to be like a constantly traveling ED, but I’ve been thinking that if I can prioritize area gatherings and area conferences where all the AO’s of the area are invited and probably most of them come, that would be a good chance to meet individual AO leaders all in one place. And I will make every effort to prioritize that.

Jim Killam (27:28.853)

It’s interesting that you’re stepping into this at a time when the world has become a lot more chaotic and dangerous. Gosh, right before we got on, I saw a travel advisory for the Alliance or for the Alliance Leadership Team. That’s got to be on your mind too, right? That this is a really weird time.

Agnes Lid (27:49.954)

Absolutely. I think we have to be prepared that things can continue to change quickly. We have to be prepared to turn around quickly, change plans, be flexible. We should be wise. Also seek advice like the travel advice that just went out. Like right now, it may not be so smart to book tickets through the Middle East, at least not tickets that can’t be refunded, that kind of thing. And so, we have seen, well, we’ve seen for years already, but it seems to be escalating, that the world, things are unpredictable. And that’s just reality. 

I think maybe as Christians and with a biblical view of what the Bible says about the last days, nobody knows how long those last days are or when are we in them or, you know, well. But that we should be prepared, it’s not necessarily going to get better permanently.

It may be waves or periods, cycles, I don’t know. But I think that we need to be prepared and flexible at the same time. I think Jesus said somewhere, work while it is day. Because night is coming and then nobody can work. And so that’s something I’ve thought about for many years.

As long as doors are open, as long as it’s possible to travel, as long as it’s possible to gather, we will do it. We will make every effort to continue working to fulfill our mission, to see vision taking place, but being prepared that maybe one day we won’t be able anymore. We did have like a test run during COVID. All of a sudden all the planes were you know, grounded and

Agnes Lid (30:02.017)

It’s almost unbelievable — thousands of airplanes, no commercial flights for so long. And so we don’t know — this could happen again.

And I even think about when I travel, there’s no guarantee that my return flight will go exactly as planned.

Agnes Lid (30:24.193)

But it’s reality and I think we just have to accept that and ask again ‘God, we don’t do this on our own.’ We’re not building some profane structure. We’re building God’s kingdom. We work with the Lord, trusting him to be with us every day. Doesn’t mean that everything’s gonna go smoothly. Doesn’t mean that we’re not gonna have problems, but we know that we rely on him, and he’s with us.

Jim Killam (30:54.271)

It’s kind of mind boggling to have all that you just described happening and then see what’s happening in technology where these just unbelievable advances that are really influencing Bible translation. And it’s like they’re almost working against each other sometimes.

Agnes Lid (31:13.759)

I think we’ll see both. Like AI and all these advances, and I’m not an expert on that, but I understand enough to see that these are great tools. There’s great potential for, for instance, all the work we do, and we are involved with Bible translation, that things, these are tools that could speed up translations, that could help translators.

But at the same time, you don’t have to read that much until you see the scary side of AI. And you see AI kind of taking over or not being that you can shut it off or… you read articles of tests that have been done that scare the scientists and the technicians too, and the programmers. So, well, again, where is our … we have to place my security, Jesus is the rock, you know. If my security is the bank or the airplane systems or whatever else, political systems, I’m gonna be disappointed because they’re gonna fail me. We have to have that foundation that we live by faith, and then we have to relate to what’s around us.

Phil Prior (32:43.47)

So stepping into the Alliance at this time, as Jim has so encouragingly drawn our attention to the level of chaos that exists in the world and the increasing level of chaos, what’s the role of the Alliance in this world going forward? How do we look to the future of Bible translation and the church and what God is doing in this world and what’s the part that you see the Alliance playing in this in the future?

Agnes Lid (33:14.433)

Yeah, I thought quite a bit about that, because we’ve had this question. So what is really the value of the Alliance? And I think we represent or together we are more than 100 autonomous organizations. And we’re bound together not by an authority structure. It’s not a line of command. It’s not one corporation. We voluntarily committed to be in community together.

And we’re bound together by vision and by values. And then we see interdependence as a strength, you know, that actually it’s … the ideal is that nobody can say, I can manage without you, but that we would say we need each other. You’re different, that organization is different, we have different resources, we have different sizes, but we all have something that God’s given us that we can contribute. And together, we are stronger. And I really believe we are uniquely positioned because of our structure to be used by God now and in the future,

for the Bible translation. And remember also that as we see the church globally engaging more and more in Bible translation, we also have in the Alliance many of our member organizations are churches and denominations. And so they also serve as an example and inspiration in the way they work. 

Today, what we are in today, 2026 is very different. Even 10 years or 20 years back, there were a few large organizations, you know, big names. That was Bible translation globally. Today, it’s much more diverse. There are many players from all parts of the world. And yeah, it can be seen as messy in some ways. It’s not just one standard, one set of exactly how things should be done.

Agnes Lid (35:30.389)

But at the same time, who said it should be so simple and straightforward? This way, it’s like so much is happening. And the speed, you know, because in the startups, it’s accelerating because there so many more players being given the opportunity or, you know, there are no gatekeepers because there are no gates. You know, this is open to those who feel called and want to engage.

So I believe that the Alliance can serve as a catalyst and inspiration and we can facilitate synergies, I believe, in Bible translation.

Jim Killam (36:12.461)

Yeah, I was just going to ask, you mentioned the church or churches’ involvement, particularly with that on the increase, how that informs your leadership. Have you thought that through a little bit as far as what that looks like specifically for you in this role?

Agnes Lid (36:36.715)

Well, what I can say is that this has been a topic in the Alliance for a number of years. We’ve explored it through consultations and made statements, articles on it. And the board also of Wycliffe Global Alliance issued a statement a couple of years ago just to make it very clear that we see ourselves as part of the church, but also as a servant to the church, that the church is

I mean, the church is the body of Christ in the world. The church has been sent. The church has been tasked. And we are just kind of a specialized workforce in the church or of the church, serving the church as a whole. But it doesn’t mean that we’re not allowed to work. So we serve the church and we are part of the church. It’s a little bit ambiguous.

And well, welcome to reality. Reality is ambiguous and there are tensions between all these things, but this is what the reality we want to embrace and work in.

Phil Prior (37:47.107)

A moment ago you mentioned about the Alliance being this network of interdependent organisations and right back when we started talking you also mentioned about leading this small organisation in Norway and the board being willing to free you up to be able to serve in this role.

How does the rest of the Alliance support you, the Wycliffe Norway Board and Wycliffe Norway? What can the rest of the Alliance offer to Wycliffe Norway by way of encouragement, prayer, practical? What would fill you with joy to know?

Agnes Lid (38:33.697)

Well, encouragement is always welcome. Prayer, absolutely. I treasure. Just knowing that people pray, I received also encouraging messages after this was made known. that’s, yeah, I take that to heart. It hasn’t struck me that we would expect or ask the Alliance to…

serve or help Norway in any practical ways. But of course, if there was any way or anything that came up, we would welcome that. As a small organization, we have enjoyed and enjoy the fellowship of the European organizations. That’s where we kind of gather every year. It’s valuable for us being this small. I’m afraid that if we had just been Wycliffe Norway in the world, you know, we would maybe have stagnated and lost momentum. But the fellowship, the hearing from others, learning from each other, discussing issues, learning some things you learn from the larger organizations, some things you learn from the smaller. And the inspiration to continue, it’s definitely there. So that fellowship is valuable for us. 

Phil Prior (40:08.427)

So is there anything within what you have experienced and what you’ve seen that really encourages you about the future of Bible translation? What have you had the privilege to be part of or to experience or to hear about that really excites you for what’s coming next?

Agnes Lid (40:24.385)

Well, I think the most inspiring things would be the impact stories or the testimonies or the events that you can participate in. Although those are just examples, they can show something about the big picture. I just returned three days ago from a dedication in Senegal that we’ve had staff from Wycliffe Norway working for a long time. It’s taken long, but it was wonderful to be there and to celebrate the Bible in Safi-Safi in Senegal in two different scripts, the Ajami, you know, the adjusted Arabic script and the Roman script. And it’s Genesis, Exodus and the whole New Testament. And to celebrate with the community, the language community with believers, Christian believers, also Muslim leaders were there welcoming this, accepting these books. And so the celebration, the joy, and the joy of seeing a small language group – 300,000 out of 19 million. But to see that their language now has become a national language, it’s documented, it has a writing system.

Just … what it gave to people, what they expressed the joy of having this. And then a testimony that just a week earlier a person had been in contact with our staff there for years and years, but just decided, ‘I want to follow Jesus. I want to be a believer.’

Agnes Lid (42:20.189)

And there’s no longer doubt and what had been the big encouragement over the last few years it’s been our translator, our staff in there he’d been starting to send as soon as — you know because Scripture has been uploaded and it’s digital before it was printed — sending Scripture passages on Whatsapp every day to a smaller group and she said ‘I already know how much

I have been able to be encouraged and strengthened in my daily life from these Scripture passages being shared with me daily. I’m ready and …’ maybe at a high cost in her local community. So that’s a testimony and that just shows some of what we talk about and believe that transformation through God’s love and his Word expressed in people’s own languages and culture. It’s powerful, right? This is what motivates us.

Jim Killam (43:26.459)

What do you feel, Agnes, would be a huge challenge or a huge uncertainty that you look at and say, I have no idea how we’re going to deal with this — from an Alliance perspective or just even personal?

Agnes Lid (43:46.348)

Yeah, there are challenges ahead of us. There are financial challenges, that’s the honest truth. The Alliance did away with the system of assessment on projects and Alliance staff a few years ago, five, six years ago – sensing that it would not really … It has served us well, but it’s basically a few organizations contributing and the Alliance is global and we want to work and even fund our work in a way that honors who we are as a community. And there are other reasons as well that have to do with government regulations on sending large sums and this kind of … unspecified, out of the country becoming more and more difficult. Well, that’s so far so good, but how do you replace that need for funds coming in? So, we have some issues to solve there, to develop a way we don’t want to compete with the national Wycliffe organizations in fundraising, but we do need to find ways to raise funds to run the Alliance effectively.

And we also want the Alliance to be led by a team that is diverse and culturally diverse as well, which again means that we need some funds. So, this is one challenge. There are other challenges – finding good ways to work together so that we honor partnerships, but in a good way. We sometimes, we may feel we have the same vision as a partner, but maybe not the values. We don’t want things to be driven only by…, to be aware that money can so easily become a power factor. And we don’t want that.

Agnes Lid (45:57.676)

But this is something that needs constant attention and awareness so that we don’t fall back into the traps and the patterns of in a way… funders’ dominance or the Western dominance over everything that happens. Yeah, I mean there are many more challenges. Those are just a few.

Phil Prior (46:51.326)

I think at a global level and you touched on it in your answer to the previous question was the fact that getting everybody pulling in the same direction with the same priorities is not an easy thing and there is that sense of how do you preserve unity in a Bible translation network? And yet, what, two years ago in South Africa, we were together and experienced a great sense of unity in a meeting room in Johannesburg. And yet we can’t go there every few months for a recharge on unity. How do you see the Alliance playing out that sense of unity that we know that is there in Jesus, our Saviour, because that’s what essentially draws us all in together. How do you see that playing out, do think?

Agnes Lid (48:00.076)

I think it’s important to see that unity is not an option, it’s what God’s called us to. And it’s not established like once and for all, so we sense the unity at a gathering and that means there’s unity. So, it’s something, it’s a value, it’s also a characteristic that we, or something we say, this is what we want to be like.

And so that means we have to work for it, strive for it and contribute to it. It’s a constant effort, I think. 

It’s a passage I thought a lot about it’s Ephesians 4:1-4 because the Apostle Paul writes to the Ephesians and he, you know, urges them to remain in unity and he says and this is something I meditate on as a leader because you always meet people or have to handle people that create problems. That’s part of being a leader. And handle critical people or just conflicts. So Paul says there that, you know, be completely humble and gentle. Be patient, bearing with one another in love.

And then he adds, Paul adds there, make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. Okay, so I learned from that. It’s a mindset. It’s something you strive for. It’s a priority. But it’s also, it comes at a cost, because you put down some of your own or your natural inclination to be aggressive or critical or, you know, have my way.

Agnes Lid (49:47.649)

It’s a give and take. It just requires more. But you can make an effort. Be humble and gentle. Be patient. Bear over with one another. So if we can all try to do that and meet each other and also in the outset, trust that the others have good intentions even if we disagree about something. Something I learned also in a course many years ago. It’s helped me. If people disagree, probably they’re really convinced about what they’re saying. So unless they prove it differently, trust that they have good intentions. It kind of lowers the conflict and it helps in the communication.

Let’s work on it and let’s say we don’t want to give it up. We want to be in unity.

Phil Prior (50:44.796)

Thank you, Agnes. Maybe Paul’s words are a great place to end this conversation and thank you for your time being with us and sharing with the Alliance. And we look forward to lots of other opportunities to meet with you like this in the coming months ahead. Thank you, Agnes.

Jim Killam (51:04.343)

Thank you, Agnes.

Agnes Lid (51:04.523)

Well, thank you for having me here.