In the Company of Travellers  – S2E3 Transcript / Discernment

Guest: Anke Plange, Wycliffe Netherlands. Hosts: Jo Johnson, Hannes Wiesmann

Jo Johnson:

Welcome to In the Company of Travellers, a podcast from the Wycliffe Global Alliance. This is our third episode in the second season. I’m Jo-Johnson and with me, as always, is Hannes Wiesmann.

Hannes Wiesmann:

Hi Jo, and hello to our listeners. It’s good to be with you as we step further into season two, and our conversation about organizational discernment. For this episode, we have another special guest.

Jo:

Yes, our guest today is Anke Plange. Anke is with Wycliffe Netherlands, where she serves as Executive Director for International Partnerships. Anke talks in particular about their process of determining if their organisation is doing the right things in the right ways.

Hannes:

Yes, and also how they involve the church in that process. She has a lot of relevant things to say for ministry leaders. Here then is our conversation with Anke.

Jo:

Anke, you mentioned to me that you had learnt something in this area from some partner consultations that Wycliffe Netherlands have been involved in, so we’re looking forward to digging into that and discovering some more things with you. But to start us off, could you share a story, personal or professional, where discernment played an important role?

Anke:

Let me think back a couple of years when I first started working with Wycliffe Netherlands. I was just trying to get into this whole worldwide Bible translation movement and thinking what it is and what it is all about. And it was very interesting to see that there is a lot of, we have, all together we have a lot of big goals, goals about transformation of lives, of communities. And I loved it. I mean I love being part of something global and knowing that God is in charge and then we have these big goals. At the same time, I realized we work on projects, we work with our field staff—and what goals do we have? And the things we do in everyday life, are those really leading to changed lives and changed communities? Do they really lead toward that desired transformation? And then I realized that it would be good to look at what is in the middle there, between what we are doing and these big goals of transformation. And we’ve been very intentional about saying, how do we get there? How do we get to transformation? So we worked at something that we call a theory of change where we looked at, OK, from these projects, where do we need to go in order to get to transformation. And we said, for us it’s very important that the Word of God is available, which is of course one of the things that we believe in will lead towards transformation. But apart from that, we also need the Word of God being used because we don’t want the Word of God on a shelf. And I have a nice shelf in my office full of different Bibles in different colors. But yeah, we rather want to see the Bibles open and used.

And then a third point, what we also said was, in order to achieve real transformation, we need the local church to be owning the process of Bible translation and the activities that we implement together with our partner organizations. And I think that has been very helpful to really work on this and define this for us to understand this is the road that we think will lead towards transformation or the different paths or pathways actually. And that will help us to do not only do things right, but also do the right things. And for us, that has always been very important. Are we doing the right things? And why are those the right things?

Jo:

So in effect, you’re saying that you need to include other people in that process. How did you go about doing that?

Anke:

I think one of the things we did is that we’ve all been trying to be more in touch with our partner organizations, not just having projects that we fund or sending people to the field and saying, OK, go ahead, do what you do best. But we’ve been trying to be in touch with our partner organisations on a regular basis, thinking along with them … to look at what is their vision, what is their longer term vision, what is the vision for the country, what are the needs in country, what do they see as their role in those Bible translation needs? What other stakeholders, what other partners are involved in a particular country? And what does that mean for Wycliffe Netherlands? How can we come alongside? What is our role and responsibility? We just don’t want to say, OK, we are here and this is what we can offer, but also check what is really needed in a particular context.

Jo:

You talked or you referred earlier to involving the church as much as possible. Have you been able to involve churches in those kind of decision-making processes as well?

I think yes, more and more. At Wycliffe Netherlands, we do visit the field quite regularly, especially the countries where we want to be strategically involved. We have chosen a number of countries where we want to be more involved. There’s a couple of countries in Francophone Africa and there’s a couple of countries in more closed areas in Asia. Yeah, we go and visit and we ask them also like who are the main stakeholders? Where are the churches? Can we meet them? Can we maybe sit together like in a round table discussion where we have all the different partners together? Who is the church in your context? And how are they involved now? And in some counties, like in the Democratic Republic of Congo, we also have worked with the churches directly and asked them and also asked them if they were willing to pick up some of the translation needs in areas where there were no Bible translation agencies. And yeah, it’s been a rough road. So to say in terms of can’t churches … we really want the church to be at the steering wheel. At the same time, does that always mean that the church itself is the one that’s implementing Bible translation? Or can it also be a Bible translation agency but that is governed by local churches? Or how does it work? But yeah, we try everywhere in the different countries we are involved, we try to yeah to see who is the church and how can they be involved more and be more at the steering wheel.

Hannes:

To me Anke, this idea of theory of change resonates well, makes sense. I’m curious, as you try to figure out what is your theory of change? And I’m talking about the process, I’m not talking about the content, obviously specific to your organization. But in the process, how do you think your way of defining your theory of change is different to any secular organization or NGO that would also try to define their theory of change?

Anke:

Well, there’s one interesting story. I always use a little picture. It’s a picture of a blackboard. There’s a formula on the left bottom corner and there’s a formula on the right top corner. And there’s two people standing in front of the blackboard and they pointing their stick towards the middle. And in the middle it says, “Between the formulas, then a miracle occurs. And that’s often the theory behind theory of change. People think we do this, then a miracle occurs and then our big vision is being achieved. The good thing, what is different with secular NGOs or other organizations sometimes, is that within Bible translation one of our assumptions or one of our—actually it’s our knowledge that miracles do occur. Within theory of change you do work with assumptions. If you do this, this will happen and this will happen and finally you will achieve your desired goal and impact. But within the Bible translation movement, one of the things we also said, one assumption, and assumptions need also, you need to be able to prove those assumptions. And for us, one big assumption is that God is at work and the Holy Spirit is there. So that sometimes it could mean that, yes, we were involved in a project, The Bible has been translated, it’s been put on a shelf. But look, all of a sudden, five years later, somebody takes that Bible off the shelf and things will happen.

So in that sense, theory of change can be like a formula, where you go from one step to the other, and you think this will happen, and you’re never sure. But within the Bible translation movement, one of the things that we believe and that we know for sure is that God is in control, and he’s the head of our mission. And we are happy to let him be in our theory of change.

Hannes:

And what about your own process of defining your theory of change or formulating your theory of change? How did the fact that you are a “Christian organization”, how did that inform the way you went about this? Because you could do that just as any other secular organization using your left brain and all the best, you know, experts there are to help you find out what are the different steps. But I’m assuming that the fact that you are all believing Christians has some impact on how you went about.

Anke:

Yeah, I think that was one of the added values of doing it within a Christian agency. I just had come on board and I read about the Wycliffe Global Alliance Bible translation philosophy statement, and it has all these Bible verses of why we are doing things and how we are doing them. And it’s still quite on the missiological level, but at the same time, for me it was, yes, this is where it clicks and this is where we are heading and this is where we want to go. And this is also part of the how, because it talks about the church. I talks about local partner organizations. It talks about a lot of very valuable things. So I think we used that, and then of course we used our experience because one of the things that we did about 10 years ago was a research called Suram in Papua New Guinea where we looked at Scripture engagement. And one of the main outcomes was that it’s not always a given that translated Scripture is being used. Because one the main outcome was that about one-third of the translated Scriptures were well used, one third was less used and one third wasn’t used at all. That helped us to realize that Scripture use is so important when we invest in our supporting Bible translation. That’s also why we said no, translated Bible itself is not enough, and we need to do more. So I think it was a whole thinking process within Wycliffe Netherlands. And then, theory of change being a tool that … helped us to shape that process and it’s also helped us in kind of justifying what we are doing. Because one of the things we say, for instance, when it comes to literacy, we say literacy is important for Bible use. So we say that, yes, we do literacy but mainly when it contributes to Scripture engagement and to open Bibles. And not necessarily literacy in every context. But we say for us it has helped to say, well, let’s do literacy there where it contributes to Bible translation or where Bible translation is also being done.

Jo:

So you’ve put some principles in place by which you measure the plans that you are in the process of making.

Anke:

We say this will lead to this, so if people can read and write that will lead to using Scripture more often. And of course there’s different ways of using Scripture orally.

Jo:

Yeah, because it’s when we’re discerning what God’s will is we are constantly trying to measure that against a lot of other things, you know. What does Scripture say? What do our partners ask us for? And it’s just, it’s quite interesting to me that you’ve put these principles in places to help you discern the right way to plan and to go. How do you cope with the tension between what the expectations of donors in the West and partners in developing countries are looking for and the speed in which things can happen? Is that something that plays into how you plan or is that …? Because that’s a constant tension in my experience.

Anke:

Yes, speed versus reality or versus what partners want and what they need. Yeah, it’s a big issue. I think because as partners we want to be working interdependently, which also means that we listen to one another. And I think both ways there is adaptation sometimes in the plans we had initially. Of course within Wycliffe Netherlands we look at where there is a planning and progress kind of document where you can fill in how many verses a translator is expected to be translating roughly.

So recently, for instance, we had a proposal from a partner in Tanzania and for the whole three years, the only goal they had was to translate Psalms. And we did actually ask and say, well, how come then it takes three years to just translate Psalms? Is that normal? So we do go through those kind of processes. But in the end, we said it’s OK because we understand those are relatively new translators. The Old Testament is new for them. So maybe this is what is needed for the Psalms to be translated. And then they also were planning some recording and some other things I think, putting it to music, and then we said well, OK, in this case putting it to music also helps Scripture engagement so yes, this is important. So of course we do have some accountability measures in place, but what our partners say is very important, and we are dependent on them. Because we are not doing the work ourselves. We might have some field staff that is helping with checking of translation here and there, but I mean, it’s the partners who are doing the work. So we are mutually dependent on one another.

Hannes:

I would like to quickly circle back to the theory of change. I find that quite fascinating. As we are talking about discernment, I wonder, could you say that the fact that you have developed your theory of change helps you in your discernment process, where and how you want to engage in any activity? It seems like this theory of change gives you a certain set of values and you would measure a decision or a project against those values. So if this is correct, I wonder how would you make sure that this is not too rigid? You know, this also is not a formula that you say, well, if it goes through all our filters of those values, then we do it. And if there is one value that’s not respected, we won’t do it. I’m assuming you are more flexible. How do you handle this flexibility?

Anke:

I think there is values and principles that we use and we also very much vested in the common framework principles where we work from, in relationships, in partnership. There is stewardship that’s important, the vision is important. So we do check with partner organizations. For instance, if there’s a project proposal or they say, “Hey, we want to do something on literacy” or “we want to do something on Scripture engagement,” then we ask, “So how does this fit within your own organizational strategy?” … We just also want to understand the reason why they come with particular requests to us and we want to be responsible partners in that sense.

So we try to understand their context, and that’s one of the reasons we have chosen to work in a number of focus countries. So we do understand the people more. We do know where they’re coming from. We do have access to their multi-annual plans or we’ve been in touch for a long time so we know their hearts ,we know their vision and how they work. I don’t think I’ve answered all of your question.

Hannes:

I’m interested in how you keep being flexible. How this theory is not a rigid system—that you serve the system rather than the system serving you.

Anke:

Yeah, there’s a couple of times that because a partner organization needed something that we did actually say, well, we see that this can contribute to your organization supporting more Bible translation in your country. For instance, I think it was in Mali, it’s one of the countries where we work. And their organization was really in need of some organizational strengthening and organizational strengthening is one of the things we would like to be involved in, but not necessarily financially, but in this case they really needed solar panels because it would really facilitate the availability of electricity and then also support the work, and also for their own organizational capacity, sustainability. And we gave in and we said, yes we’ll do it. It doesn’t mean now we have … It’s always a bit of a precedent because then another organization … “We heard you did solar panels in Mali”. And so sometimes we when we see this is really something that can help an organization and support them in their core business, then we can help them.

Another example I think is because our field staff, our office staff, we are also discussing like, how rigid are we when we are choosing particular countries to work? But then what happened was, we had a few people that came to Wycliffe Netherlands and said, “We are interested in sign language.” And I think there were three different people around the same time that said “We want to be involved in sign language.” And we didn’t do anything much in sign language. A little bit, but not a whole lot. And then we realized, well, we have to probably listen and discern if this is God’s voice telling us, you should be involved more in sign language. And since then, we had the opportunity to be indeed more involved. Some sign language projects in more closed areas, where we are already working also on written translations, and even in sign language in the Netherlands. And that’s also the only project that we are involved in in the Netherlands is the sign language translation. And we are very happy that it has come off the ground and started to take up a bit more speed, because we didn’t have a lot of translated chapters yet in the Netherlands.

Hannes:

So I hear that you have your theory, but you hold it lightly.

Anke:

It’s more guidance than a strict measure to say, well, this is what we have to achieve. It’s more of a guidance and a helpful instrument or a helpful theory. It remains a theory that helps us to say, yes, we’re on the right path. And this is how we as a Western European Alliance organization can contribute to the global BT movement, the Bible translation movement.

Hannes:

Yeah, probably the fact that you call it or that it is called a theory helps in and of itself because a theory is there to be proved or proved wrong.

Anke:

Yes, yes, and we do need to also kind of prove right yes or no. So at the moment there’s a colleague who is also looking at church involvement. Is it really the way we talk about it? Is there really an involvement and is that a heartfelt involvement? Is it something that really helps the translation movement and how? So that it that will also help us to learn more about involving the church, working with the church, working with our partner organizations through the church, what works and what doesn’t work. So it’s also a learning tool as well definitely. Yeah.

Jo:

That’s fantastic. Thank you for sharing. Before we finish, I wondered if you had any advice from what you’ve learned about discernment that you would give to a group that was about to go through a discernment process?

Anke:

 I think it is It is important to ask yourself the question, how can we best serve the Bible translation movement? What do we have that can help? What resources do we have? Who do we have? So human resources, but also financial resources, prayer. Are there people that can help an organization that you collaborate with, with capacity development? So I think in this identity of your organization and who you are as an organization and then deciding on what you can contribute is very important. So you just don’t follow everybody else and say, let’s copy this organization or let’s copy that organization in how they do things.

And then a second thing is to be very intentional about the impact that you want to achieve, the desired impact, because that’s what we live for, what we work for, and what is our main goal and our hope to be achieved that it will really contribute to God’s kingdom and what he wants us to do. And in that sense, it’s very much a privilege to be part of that and to know that he is the designer and that he will be the finisher of what we are doing.

Hannes:

You touched on the fact that you brought in partners, you’re listening to partners. Maybe you don’t realize because that’s who you are, you Dutch people. You are very brave, I think. You’re very courageous to actually listen, also to the voice that is challenging you. You know, we didn’t go deep into the partnership consultation that you organized last year, but this was an exercise of listening to the partners and you were very intentional in setting it up in a way that the partners are invited to challenge you with observations and experiences that are difficult. I think that’s a unique strength that you as a nation, culture have, that you are brave to do that. And I think that contributes to good discernment, you know, the outside voice. But we so often, we block it away just because it’s too difficult to handle.

Anke:

It is difficult to handle these outside voices sometimes. Also just to make them speak up to our resource partners, to make them speak up and really say what they want, because in a way they’re also dependent on resources, we are dependent on them, so how do you navigate that wisely? It’s not an easy job. But then we would really want to … for us, the principle of mutuality in the dependence is very, very important, of really being brothers and sisters in the kingdom of God. And then you need to listen to one another and hear each other’s voice. And I think as a leader, I like the word you said brave, Hannes. It’s come to me a couple of times in these past months. And I think as a leader, you need to be courageous. And what I’ve seen is sometimes there’s difficult situations, but then it helps to speak out, to improve what is going on and not just cover it under a layer of sand and say, well, let’s just continue the way we are continuing, and see what comes out of it. Because it will remain there and that’s not what you’re aiming for. And there is this … I think we have a saying in Dutch that says when things are a bit difficult, you know when you’re conflicting a bit, you have to talk . And when you once you talk through it, it will shine more. And then you have a decision or you have an approach or a way of dealing it that really helps and helps you to go forward.

Jo:

So it means stepping outside our comfort zones very often.

Anke:

Yes, and I think that’s what leaders have to do, but it’s not (easy).

Jo:

Thanks again to Anke for your time and insights, and thanks to all of you for listening. We welcome your questions and comments. You can email us at info@wycliffe.net. See you next time.

Announcer:

In the Company of Travellers is a podcast of the Wycliffe Global Alliance. If you have questions or comments, we would love to hear from you. Please email us at info@wycliffe.net. And, you can find much more about the Alliance including news, reflection, partnership opportunities and much more at Wycliffe.net.